Why are the US and Israel opposing a Palestinian state?

Question

The excuse is that it will jeopardize peace talks. What peace talks ? As I see it the opposite would happen as it would put both on a level footing from the beginning or could it be that Israel wants to occupy the whole of Palestine thus making any proposed statehood impossible.?

Answer 1

It's quite simple, the U.S, Israel and most of Europe do not want the Palestinians to have their own state. They have never wanted the Palestinians to have their own state, and the Palestinians themselves know that it is too late for them to claim all of the land that is rightfully theirs. The Palestinians are only asking for the remaining 20% of the land which is the result of the 67 war, the 20% remaining which the international community does regard as Palestinian land.



The Peace talks, have always been and always will be a farce, a con, and they are everything but peace talks. It was a brilliant plan drawn up by the Israelis to allow them to steal more land, destroy more lives under the guise that 'Peace Negotiations' are still underway. The only problem is that these 'talks' have lasted for 20 years and never got anywhere. Palestinians have always been willing to negotiate (Hamas included) whereas the Israeli's have never intended to give anything back, their aim is only to present unacceptable deals to the Palestinians that they know they cannot accept, making the whole process go around in a continuous loop.



Israel has unlawfully held on to Palestinian land from the very beginning (Living in a fantasy that a land is rightfully theirs because one book claims so - as If that is a valid reason lol) and they aren't about to give 20% of it back without the biggest fight they can possibly give. Abbas did not take the case of Palestinian statehood to the U.N because he believed that the world would accept it. He brought it to the U.N as an attempt to bring Palestinian suffering back to the worlds attention.



The Israelis definitely want to occupy the whole of Palestine, I think their brutal 60 year history clearly portrays their intentions. They actually believe anything from the Nile to Euphrates belongs to them, now whether this is an actual long term plan of theirs or just a morale boosting tactic, nobody knows. What is known however, is that they need to be brought back to reality, and they will, in good time.

Answer 2

Are you asking us or telling us? besides.......... in spite of what Israel or the West attempt to grant the Palestinians they(the Palestinians) will nonetheless by no potential ever be chuffed till the country of Israel and its every person is the two: A: ineffective B: not in the middle East C: now not exist as a rustic the fact of the undertaking i think of is this Israel, besides the fact that a mistake in some peoples eyes(not my eyes), is a rustic this is wealthy and extremely non violent. It has on many events tried to make certain and artwork in the direction of peace in the middle east and with the Palestinian basically to be thwarted and misled by potential of the Arabs and the corporate and Palestinian human beings. It now seems that there heavily isn't peace in and around Israel till the Palestinians drop there age previous hate for Israel and the Jewish human beings. till that happens Israel is amazingly interior its appropriate to apply despite technique mandatory not basically to guard its human beings yet in addition to handle outdoors aggression of any variety by potential of any potential mandatory..

Answer 3

Reasons why the US and Israel oppose a Palestinian state:



1. Palestine has broken the Osslo Accords by bidding for a Palestine state unilaterally, bypassing peace talks with Israel to avoid negotiations.



2. Abbas is asking for the formation of a state based on the 1949 cease fire lines also called the green line, which would practically dwindle what's left of Israel with no Jerusalem.



Palestine State:



1. Palestine does not want a state, Abbas does not want a 2 state solution. The proof is in the pudding and its evident that they dismissed 5 Israeli two state solutions, even matching what they are offering now.



2. Palestine wants an Islamic Khalifa. Their goal in the long run is to convert infidels all over the world. Hamas is a branch of the muslim brotherhood opposed to the more secular PLO. By this, A Palestinian state would be the next step to reach their goal: Islamic law all over the land in Palestine, which includes Israel. This is the Palestinian goal, global spread of Islamic Khalifa, including the land of Israel.



@ Mr. Petit



There was no Palestinian State according to the time frame you mention of. It was simply a territory with no form of administrative structure of any merit. Jewish Yishuvs had political structure and administration structures procured into Jewish society. The Arab Higher Committee was the only thing even remotely close, which was a toll on the Husseinis and spent as much time and effort killing other arabs as it did fighting the Yeshuv's. Palestinian identity was formed to oppose Zionism, not because they had a positive identity or claim to the land. And how come your have not complained about the Egypt's seizure of Gaza, how did these crimes escape history? How about the real land grab in the West Bank by the Jordanians in which they did not accept any citizens that came over the border? Why do you not bring the real crimes up against these arabs that were expelled from these countries?



@ Petit



This guy has an answer for everything, especially with his "sources". Think what you want pal.

Answer 4

They are opposing the UN move, not the state, because of the jeopardizing of peace talks. I'd at least get that straight, since Israel doesn't concretely oppose the Palestinian state.



They want to make sure that, if they become a state, that a peace can be viable and long lasting, thus they ask certain things from the Palestinians. The Palestinians, though, want a state and certain things from Israel. Since those two things somewhat conflict with each other, talks are necessary, or we are going to have two nations that will need third party negotiations all the time. Given how connected the peoples actually are, that could be a problem. Meaning, the Ramallah citizen might need his doctor in Jerusalem, or the Nazareth woman wants to visit her Jenin sister, or something like that. Basically, it will do neither Israel nor Palestine any good if both don't talk with each other.



Since Palestine wants some things from Israel that have nothing to do with borders or a state, I have to think that they really should be more negotiable with Israel. They want Israel to fund this, or they want Israel to absorb that population, or whatever, which Israel is willing to discuss. Obviously, Israel doesn't want to taken in many refugees that announce their hatred, but they are willing to take in some, but not as many as the Palestinians want, or they might reject whom could apply. On the other hand, Palestine might get declared but could lose some things that are under negotiation, and no matter if their advances screw over Israel or not, Israel will still remember that the Palestinians were attempting to undermine it.



It's really that the Palestinians are potentially not playing smart politics, since like it or not, their future is thrown in with the Israelis, and irking them can serve to really hurt them too.

Answer 5

Netanyahu doesn't want an even sided negotiation but more like a surrender declaration, in which Israel holds all the decisions and the Palestinians should accept what he offers out of pity as if they were some beggars with no rights.

"Israel will be generous on the size of the Palestinian state, but will be very firm on where we put the border with it. This is an important principle" Mr Netanyahu told Congress.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13528158



as for the US, the least I can think of right now is this quote from AIPAC chief

"President Barack Obama should not take an even-handed approach to the Middle East conflict, When the United States is even-handed, Israel is automatically at a disadvantage, tilting the diplomatic playing field overwhelmingly toward the Palestinians and Arabs"

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/aipac-chief-obama-should-not-be-even-handed-toward-israel-and-palestinians-1.363579



Thus apparently Obama has no problem disregarding his Cairo speech along with all the credibility left in him for the sake of winning Jewish vote in the upcoming elections.

Answer 6

Essentially, Palestine [Gaza and West Bank] is/are not ready for statehood. Gaza has been "governing" itself since 2005, and has not been able to create a stable government, let alone a democratic one. Factions are still fighting and killing one another. This is apart from the uncontrolled terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians.

I would think that a minimal requirement for statehood is the potential for a stable government and a willingness to recognize the borders of its neighbors.

In fact Israel finds itself in the awkward position of finishing the job originally assigned to the British Mandate for Palestine, i.e. getting these territories ready for statehood.

Answer 7

Sykes Picot; Imperial colonies run by dictators like Qaddafi & Co. are needed to hoard wealth.

Answer 8

Both the US and Israel support a (second) Palestinian state. They oppose the recent tactic the PA tried to use to get it.



The big demand was that the PA comply with international law and achieve peace and final status borders through peaceful negotiation as required under UN SC Res 242 instead of avoiding it. More detailed:



Hamas' charter is that Israel must be destroyed. All of it. And that Jews must be killed. All of them.



The PA may "recognize" that Israel exists in some of their statements. But, they also teach and preach that 100% of Israel must be destroyed and replaced with an Arab only Palestine. Their schoolbooks and official PA maps all show Palestine as including 100% of Israel and Israel does not exist on their maps.



2. More importantly,



Israel turned most of the West Bank and Gaza over to the PA.

Israel gave them money, weapons, training, buildings, and communications equipment.



The PA side responded with INCREASED incitement against and violence against Israel (often using those same weapons and communications equipment.



The PA violated their obligations from day one while Israel met hers for years and years, waiting and hoping for some reciprocity.



I think I can explain why many oppose statehood via the UN. (I don't think anyone or at least no majority is against their statehood in principle, it is about whether it is achieved through negotiation or via a UN vote)



Personally, I find my position changing. I do think it may go very very badly for them because an attack on Israel would be a full out act of war by a sovereign state and lead to a crushing response. But, if that is the route they want to go, maybe so be it. As a full sovereign state, naming your government buildings, high schools, little league teams and stadiums after those who kill civilians may get more press attention and put greater pressure on the PA.



For those that do oppose it, I think they oppose it for these reasons:





A) the UN has no authority to vote on this.



In 1948, the UN only had authority because the UK ruled that land. And the UK had the full authority to do as they wish and THEY gave the authority to the UN.



No one has such authority now, which brings us to B.



B) According to International Law and UN SC Res 242, the land in question does not belong to Israel NOR does it belong to a state of Palestine Nor does it belong to anyone else.



Under UN SC Res 242, the land in question is in legal limbo and belongs to no state UNTIL and unless all relevant parties peacefully negotiate final status borders. Until then it may be administered by Israel.



And the Arab side has rejected peaceful negotiation or violated every obligation negotiated. So, providing a new state through any other means is illegal under international law.



C) In fact, the entire vote constitutes an "end run" around the law.



Instead of seeking peace and negotiating final status borders AND recognizing Israel's right to exist safely AND not attacking Israel, they teach and preach that 100% of Israel must be destroyed, they incite violence and attack Israel, they get as much land as possible through negotiation and violate all of their obligations under the treaty and then they unilaterally seek the rest of what they want through a UN vote.



It actually sounds eerily like Arafat's 1975 "Phased plan for Israel's destruction" which called for negotiating peace treaties to get as much land as possible and then violating the agreements and using all land won through negotiation as a launching pad for destroying Israel once and for all. And both Arafat and other PA ministers have repeatedly said (since Olso) that this plan is still in effect.



And it rewards bad behavior.



D) Finally, the current political situation is untenable. The PA and Hamas have split the area and generally kill or torture or maim one another's supporters. Would a vote mean 2 warring Palestinian States or One Palestinian State ripe for civil war?



PS: the settlements are not on "stolen lands." They are on land that is private property owned by Jews (but who were ethnically cleansed in 1948) or on government owned land. The land is not "stolen." It is land that the Palestinian Authority and Hamas WANT to be part of their state. But, there is no legal basis for this. In fact, under international law the land "belongs" to NO state. That is why UN SC Res requires all relevant parties to peacefully negotiate where the borders are.

Answer 9

They are not.



They are opposing a state that is not the result of mutual negotiations.



As you might have noticed, a state that is imposed by others only results in more hatred.



Flanders has been waiting for 7 centuries. Not to mention Basque country or Catalonia. It took 10 centuries for Europe to get together. I have no clue why some find 6 decades too long for something that is so difficult, so intense, and is based on a situation of thousands of years.



It's that short term thinking that will be the downfall of the UN (as it also is the root of all global warming and basically every problem caused by humans).

Answer 10

Because the usa and israel are two terrorist states.

Answer 11

17 years of the so called-peace talks failed to provide a viable independent Palestinian state. Israel doesn't want Palestine because it is established on the basis of Zionism which calls for the establishment of Jewish majority on as much Arab land as possible.



@Mobius

When Israel withdrew from Gaza, Sharon made it clear that he did it for the security of Israeli settlers and to reduce the pressure on IDF and not peace. Israel never stopped occupying Gaza's air, sea, and 46% of agricultural land labeled as no-man zone ( http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/9A265F2A909E9A1D8525772E004FC34B ), Israel also turned Gaza into a testing lab for its chemical weapons ( http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/9A265F2A909E9A1D8525772E004FC34B ) leaving many environmental and genetic problems ( http://www.middleeastmonitor.org.uk/news/middle-east/1261-report-on-long-term-effects-of-israeli-white-phosphorus ).

Jewish terrorists who tried to blow up British and American targets in Cairo to blame it on Muslims are officially honored in Israel. All Zionist first terrorists (Lehi, Irgun, Haganah...etc) are honored in Israeli schools. The Jewish terrorist who murdered UN Mediator - the saver of thousands of Jewish lives from Holocaust - became Prime Minister of Israel, Menachem Begin Road, named after the terrorist who blew up King David Hotel...and the list is too long.



@Cher

Mind showing us a map of Palestinian state proposed by Israel? I guess you won't do that because it will ruin your Hasbara post. Israel offered a semi-state of islands surrounded by Jewish soldiers and settlers. Try to be honest for a change and tell me, what people would accept such state? The only people uprooted by Israel were the Palestinians. Israeli illegal settlers had no root there in the first place. The greenhouses were destroyed by illegal Jewish settlers on their way out:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/15/international/middleeast/15mideast.html

And after the withdraw Israel cut off its water supply to the greenhouses:

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=32030

Hamas offered to stop all rocket attacks if Israel lifts the blockade, Israel refused and responded by 3 weeks of massacre with deadliest chemical weapons. This is a proof that blockade is the cause of the rockets and not the other way. The settlements are against the international law so they should stop not freeze. By supporting the settlements you either believe that Israel or Jews are above the international law, or that they with that colonial mentality belong to the dark ages and not modern civilized world.



@Dragon

What are the chances of establishing normal community in a land under blockade and constant bombing? Where Libyans ready for a government when they decided to overthrow their dictator? Was that a good reason to keep Ghaddafi in power?



@Hebrew

Why should Palestinians be prisoners of an agreement which Israel itself had no intention to honor ( http://www.redress.cc/palestine/jcook20100724 ). Israel indeed violated Oslo many times ( http://www.robat.scl.net/content/NAD/negotiations/neg_violations/index.php ). Israel proved that it can never be a trusted partner in peace. Abbas request to the UN did not include any territories more than 1967 borders. Palestinians want a viable independent state without colonial settlements or Israeli control. Did Israel ever offer that? And what they teach you there in Israel is not true my dear friend. These scary tactics about how Muslims want to kill all infidels, or establish Khalifa...etc are just to keep your hate on.

If there was no Palestinian state, is that a good reason to expel the Palestinians from their lands for the creation of Jew-majority state? And how does that mean that Palestinians do not have the right to call themselves by the name of the land where they and their ancestors lived for thousands of years? How does that mean that Palestinians do not have any claim to the land? They were native and majority, and therefore if any state is to be established there it must have been Palestinian Arab state. I did complain about Egypt's role in the blockade, so did all pro Palestinians around the world. There were many demonstrations in front of Egyptian embassies all over the globe, chanting against the best friend of israel, the Egyptian dictator. And what Jordanian land grab are you talking about? What Arabs were expelled from what countries?



lol@Cher twisting

The water supply for the green houses was under complete Israeli control, nothing was handed, Jewish settlers themselves said it in the article. And can you provide your legal argument about the settlements? I haven't seen any Israeli supporter giving reference from the international law that building settlements in territories occupied by war is legal, want to be first? And Israel used chemical weapons on civilian population to stop rocket attacks? Most causalities were civilians (including 300 children), and many genetic and environmental problems.

Answer 12

Israel's withdrawal from Gaza shows that they don't want to continue to occupy the whole of Palestine. Gaza is a Palestinian state "preview". They elected an organization sworn to Israel's destruction and launched thousands of rockets into Israel.



Current opinion polls show that most Palestinians want a two state solution as the first step before a one state solution. They name streets and universities after suicide bombers. They teach their children to hate Jews.



I'm surprised that the Israelis have repeatedly offered them deals, even though they haven't given up their dream of destroying Israel.





Edit: @ Petit:

Regardless of Israel's priorities, their withdrawal from Gaza gave them the opportunity to govern themselves. They chose to fire rockets, which resulted in the buffer zone in areas from which the rockets were launched. You blame Israel for the consequences of Palestinian violent actions.



Jewish "terrorists" didn't target civilians. Even in the King David Hotel bombing, they called to warn civilians to get out (the warnings went unheeded). Their objective was to blow up British headquarters, not to kill women and children. Palestinian suicide bombers don't call ahead to the pizza shops to warn civilians, because the whole purpose of their operation is to kill and maim as many women and children as possible. And this is what Palestinians sadistically celebrate, distribute candies when Jewish children are slaughtered, and name streets and schools after. That's basically what it boils down to.

Answer 13

It is israel that opposes a Palestinian state......the US administration has no choice but to follow suit

Answer 14

Israel's offered a Palestinian state several times, and Palestinains have turned it down, each time. Palestinians want a state without signing onto a peace agreement. So they're avoiding the offers and going to UN instead.



I agree the whole claim of "it will jeopardize peace talks" is a poor way to describe what I just said, that PAs don't want peace or Israel. I guess they think it will "sound rude" to just say it bluntly. However Palestinians say it all the time in their media: http://www.palwatch.org



Israel already withdrew from Gaza, making your assertion impossible about them wanting it all.



Israel uprooted people and gave PAs millions in green houses (promptly destroyed by them.) Israel did no blockage until Hamas couped and took over by force while shooting missiles at Israel.



Meanwhile, Abbas's Palestinians stopped the peace talks because Israel was building settlements - while Israel had made a 10 month freeze. At month 11 they claimed the problem was Israel needs to do a freeze.... all while planning to go to the UN... These Jewish communities are less than 5% of the land in question, mostly Jerusalem suburbs.









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@Petite

You have misrepresented your sources which happen to PROVE my statements. 1st article is from beforehand. 2nd article states the actual final arrangements:

"The greenhouse deal, reached just days before the Gaza evacuation, sold the area hot houses for about $14 million to the Economic Cooperation Foundation, an international fund which in turn will transfer the structures to the Palestinians." "Gaza's Jewish greenhouses feature some of the most advanced agricultural technology in the world....Estimates put the remaining greenhouse structures at over $100 million."

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=32030

Same article says the water was turned off for the Israelis on their final crop's automatic irrigation, not for the Palestinians. In fact, a water table was turned over to the PAs who then contaminated it by improper management.



Similarly you, you misrepresent other things. Settlements are very much legal by international law. The Gaza war you refer to without name, was result of Hamas's increase to 70 rockets at Israeli children and women on Christmas Day, as their "offer to stop & freeze" missiles. They shouldn't be shooting missiles at school children anyway, & got close to Tel Aviv with a Iranian grads. The Gaza war killed mostly Hamas militants, who used their own people as shields.



Total Jewish land is less than 5% of the WB, with most being suburbs of Jerusalem, making them not the issue. Arafat already agreed to a land swap (where he got more in return) as did Abbas. The maps neglect to show what Israel agreed to turn over...making them not the actual offers. Plus these include ancient Jewish communities, but PA has stated they will make the area Jew-ridden, not PA citizens, even though individuals own the land.

Answer 15

"Why are the US and Israel opposing a Palestinian state?"



Because the Palestinians are terrorists and the world needs FEWER terrorist states, not more.

Duh!



If the Palestinians win statehood, it will only be a matter of months, not years, before the US has to destroy their government just like they did the governments of Afghanistan and Iraq, and who needs the headache?

Answer 16

oh my oh my

So many are so ill informed.

The U.S.A. is thought of as one of the biggest 'terrorists' in the world!